Vi har ju diskuterat detta tidigare - diskussionen om Naqba och frågan om hur många som flydde och hur många som fördrevs - och jag råkade hitta ett intressant inlägg, så därför tar jag det nu. Det är från Quora, man kan uppenbarligen inte länka till det direkt. Det intressanta här är att det finns namn, vem som har sagt vad, vem som har gett order. Bland annat en biskop (där kan ändå utgå ifrån att han borde säga sanningen):
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Studied at University College Dublin, Ireland1y
How did the Yishuv outnumbered two to one by the Mandate Arabs and after May 48 fighting six Arab armies accomplish the alleged expulsions?
The Arabs started a war then fled to avoid the results.
Basically in 1947-having turned down UN181 ? which would have created a two state solution- which was accepted by the Yishuv- the Arabs - led by a wanted Nazi war criminal, Haj Amin al Hussein- launched a war against the Yishuv- were joined in this war after May 1948 by the armies of five Arab states- and some 650,000 Arabs fled the area to avoid the war they started.
The vast majority of their own accord or at the urging of their leaders.
The first casualties were 4 Jews dragged off a bus on the road to Jerusalem 2 hours after UN181 was published and shot by the side of the road
I will use only Arab or pro Arab sources.
John Bagot Glubb ("Glubb Pasha"), the commander of Jordan's Arab Legion, was quoted in the London Daily Mail of August 12, 1948. as admitting,
"Villages were frequently abandoned even before they were threatened by the progress of war"
Monsignor George Hakim, Greek Orthodox Catholic Bishop of Galilee, was quoted in the Beirut newspaper, Sada al-Janub of August 16, 1948 as saying:
"The refugees were confident their absence would not last long, and that they would return within a week or two.
Their leaders had promised them that the Arab Armies would crush the 'Zionist gangs' very quickly and that there was no need for panic or fear of a long exile."
. Emile Ghoury, secretary of the Palestinian Arab Higher Committee, in an interview with the Beirut Telegraph published on Sept. 6, 1949, stated:
" The fact that there are these refugees is the direct consequence of the act of the Arab states in opposing partition and the Jewish state. The Arab states agree upon this policy unanimously and they must share in the solution of the problem."
Following a visit to refugees in Gaza in June 1949, British diplomat Sir John Troutbeck reported the following
'But while they express no bitterness against the Jews...they speak with the utmost bitterness of the Egyptians and other Arab states: 'We know who our enemies are,' they will say, and they are referring to their Arab brothers who, they declare, persuaded them unnecessarily to leave their homes."
A report by Habib Issa in the Lebanese newspaper, Al Hoda of June 8, 1951, stated:
"The Secretary-General of the Arab League, Azzam Pasha, assured the Arab peoples that the occupation of Palestine and Tel Aviv would be as simple as a military promenade. He pointed out that they were already on the frontiers and that all the millions the Jews had spent on land and economic development would be easy booty, for it would be a simple matter to throw Jews into the Mediterranean.
?Brotherly advice was given to the Arabs of Palestine to leave their land, homes and property and to stay temporarily in neighboring fraternal states, lest the guns of the invading Arab armies mow them down."
Al Difaa, Jordan, of September 6, 1954 quoted a refugee as saying:
"The Arab governments told us: Get out so that we can get in," one refugee said. "So we got out, but they did not get in."
The Jordanian daily Al Urdun of April 9, 1953, quoted Yunes Ahmed Assad, a refugee from Deir Yassin, as saying:
"The Arab Exodus ?was not caused by the actual battle, but by the exaggerated description spread by the Arab leaders to incite them to fight the Jews. ?For the flight and fall of the other villages it is our leaders who are responsible because of their dissemination of rumors exaggerating Jewish crimes and describing them as atrocities in order to inflame the Arabs ... By spreading rumors of Jewish atrocities, killings of women and children etc., they instilled fear and terror in the hearts of the Arabs in Palestine, until they fled leaving their homes and properties to the enemy."
. Edward Atiyah, wrote in his book, ?The Arabs? London: Penguin Books 1955, p.183.
"This wholesale exodus was due partly to the belief of the Arabs, encouraged by the boastings of an unrealistic Arabic press and the irresponsible utterances of some of the Arab leaders that it could only be a matter of weeks before the Jews were defeated by the armies of the Arab states and the Palestinian Arabs enabled to re-enter and retake possession of their country
Khaled al 'Azm, Syrian Prime Minister during the war, wrote in his memoirs:
among the reasons for the Arab failure in 1948 was] "the call by the Arab Governments to the inhabitants of Palestine to evacuate it and to leave for the bordering Arab countries, after having sown terror among them...Since 1948 we have been demanding the return of the refugees to their homes. But we ourselves are the ones who encouraged them to leave...
The Arab armies entered Palestine to protect the Palestinians from the Zionist tyranny, but instead they abandoned them, forced them to emigrate and to leave their homeland, imposed upon them a political and ideological blockade and threw them into prisons similar to the ghettos in which the Jews used to live in Eastern Europe.
?The Arab states succeeded in scattering the Palestinian people and in destroying their unity. They did not recognize them as a unified people until the states of the world did so, and this is regrettable.? ? The Current President of the Palestinian authority- Abu Mazen (Mahmoud Abbas), from the official journal of the PLO, Falastin el-Thawra (?What We Have Learned and What We Should Do?), Beirut, March 1976.
Mahmoud Abbas: ?We ran away at night?
How we really became refugees:
13 Palestinians tell their personal stories
Why I left Bir Ma'in - Orders of Jordanian army, promised we would "return in 2 hours"
PA TV reporter: "How did you leave Bir Ma'in? Did you experience the Nakba?"
Fuad Khader: "We left, I mean, the one who made us leave was the Jordanian army, because there were going to be battles and we would be under their feet. They told us: 'Leave. In 2 hours we liberate it and then you'll return.' We left only with our clothes, we didn't take anything because we were supposed to return in 2 hours. Why carry anything? We're still waiting for those 2 hours to this day."
[Official PA TV, May 15, 2013]
Why I left Ein Karem - Orders from Arab regimes: "Get away [for] at most two weeks"
Refugee from Ein Karem: "The radio stations of the Arab regimes kept repeating to us: 'Get away from the frontline. It's a matter of ten days, or at most two weeks, and we'll bring you back to Ein Karem [in Jerusalem].' And we said to ourselves, 'That's a very long time. Two weeks is too much.' That's what we thought [then]. And now 50 years have gone by."
[Official PA TV, July 7, 2009]
Why I left Safed - Out of fear
PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas: "The [Arab] Salvation Army withdrew from the city [Safed in 1948], causing the [Arab] people to begin emigrating. In Safed, just like Hebron, people were afraid that the Jews would take revenge for the [Arab] massacre in 1929 (Note: 65 Jews were murdered in Hebron, 18 in Safed) ... [In 1948] the people were overcome with fear, and it caused them to leave the city in a disorderly way."
[Official PA TV, Jan. 1, 2013]
Why I left Jaffa - Orders from Arab fighters
Pa TV host: "Abu Ghazaleh, tell us nice memories of Jaffa..."
Former Jordanian MP Talal Abu Ghazaleh:"Cars with megaphones roamed the streets, demanding that people leave so the fighting [against Israel] would succeed. They called to us in Arabic to leave our homes: 'We - the Palestinians, the fighters - want to fight, and don't want you to impede us so we ask you to leave the city [Jaffa] immediately ...' All of us - me, my family, and the others - left any way we could. We went to the port and boarded a ship."
[Official PA TV, Oct. 2, 2014]
Why I left Kafr Saba - We were told to "evacuate village" and assumed we would "return after a few hours"
Asmaa Jabir Balasimah (PMW narration of newspaper): "We heard sounds of explosions and of gunfire at the beginning of the summer in the year of the Nakba [1948]. We were told that the Jews attacked our region and it is better to evacuate the village and return after the battle is over. And indeed there were among us those who left a fire burning under the pot, those who left their flocks of sheep, and those who left their money and gold behind, based on the assumption that we would return after a few hours."
[Al-Ayyam, May 16, 2006]
Why I left Majdal - Orders from Arab district officer
Refugee in Gaza (talking on the phone): "My grandfather and my father told me that during the Nakba our [Arab] district officer issued an order that whoever stays in Palestine and in Majdal is a traitor."
Head of Islamic Movement in Israel Ibrahim Sarsur: "The one who gave the order forbidding them to stay there bears guilt for this, in this life and the Afterlife throughout history until Resurrection Day."
[Official PA TV, April 30, 1999]
Why I left Dir Al-Qasi - We were told we'd return "in a week or two"
Sadek Mufid: "We headed first from Dir Al-Qasi to Rmaich [in Lebanon], because of what they said at the time: 'By Allah, in a week or two, you'll return to Palestine.' The Arab armies entered Palestine, along with the Arab Salvation Army. We left - we and those who fled with us - and we all headed for Lebanon."
[Official PA TV, Feb. 9, 2010]
Why I left Safed - Family decision out of fear "hoping we would return
PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas: "To be honest, we were afraid. My family decided - I was the oldest of those who left with my brother's wife and his two children - that they would move us... I had two pairs of shoes, a new pair and an old pair. I said: ''I'll leave with the old pair, and leave the new pair for when we come back...'' We left hoping we would return. They took us east, east of Safed, to the Jordan River."
[Abbas' Facebook page May 14, 2014]
Why I left Jerusalem - Out of fear expecting to return in "two weeks"
PA TV narrator about poet Iskandar Khuri: "His family left first with other families due to the increasing pressure of terror by the Zionist gangs, in order to protect their lives, and because they thought that their absence from their homes would not last longer than two weeks, and that they would return to them after the entry of the Arab armies into Palestine."
[Official PA TV, Sept. 8, 2016]
Why Arabs left - Orders of Arab Salvation Army, you'll return "in a few days"
Journalist Jawad Al Bashiti (PMW narration of newspaper): "In the Palestinian Nakba, the first war between Arabs and Israel had started and the Arab Salvation Army told the Palestinians: 'We have come to you in order to exterminate the Zionists and their state. Leave your houses and villages, you'll return to them safely in a few days.'"
[Al-Ayyam, May 13, 2008]
Why Arabs left - Promises by Arab leaders they would return in "a few days or months"
Mahmoud Al-Habbash (PMW narration of newspaper): "The leaders and the elites promised us at the beginning of the Nakba in 1948, that the duration of the exile would not be long, and that it would not last more than a few days or months, and afterwards the refugees would return to their homes, which most of them did not leave until they believed the false promises made by the leaders and the political elites."
[Official PA daily, Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, Dec. 13, 2006]
Why Arabs left in 1948 - Orders of Arab leaders
PA daily columnist Fuad Abu Hajla (PMW narration of newspaper): "You [Arab leaders] are still searching for the way to provide aid, like one who is looking for a needle in a haystack, or like the armies of your predecessors in 1948 who forced us to emigrate, on the pretext of clearing the battlefields of civilians."
[Official PA daily, Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, March 19, 2001]
Why I left Allar - Orders of Arab army - "Leave... then you will return"
Ali Muhammad Karake: "When news reached us that the Jews were nearing our village, the Arab [Salvation] Army - may Allah protect them - came and said: Leave the village so it won't happen to you, like Deir Yassin." They slaughter, and do things." They said: "Leave, but don't go far from the village because they [the Jews] will make a short visit to the village, leave, and then you'll return to the village." The people left with nothing, even without bread and went to the mountains, and pitched [tents]."
[Al-Quds daily YouTube channel, May 17, 2016]
Arabs rejected Jews' offer to live together in Israel
Abu Muhammad 'Amara: "The truth is that the Jews brought a mediator to us, a person we knew and who knew us. They gave us choices. The first choice was that you hand over your weapons and stay on your land and live the way you live. The second choice was that you leave if you don't want to hand over [your weapons]. If you don't want to leave and go away, prepare yourselves for battle. All three were hard... For me, handing over my rifle at that time [was] actually like handing over my wife."
[Official PA TV May 15, 2013]
According to a study conducted by the Beirut Institute for Palestinian Studies released in 1970, ?fully 68% of the Palestinians left their homes without ever seeing a Jewish soldier or hearing a shot fired?.
In addition, there are documented statements by Arab leaders admitting that they ?advised? the Arabs of Palestine to vacate their homes in order to create a ?free fire zone?. Here?s a selection of quotes from neutral and Arab sources:
?The Arab exodus, initially, at least, was encouraged by many Arab leaders, such as Haj Amin al-Husseini, the Mufti of Jerusalem exiled by the British for siding with the Germans in WWII, and by the Arab Higher Committee for Palestine. They viewed the first wave of Arab setbacks as merely transitory. Let Palestine Arabs flee into neighboring countries. It would serve to arouse the other Arab peoples to greater effort, and when the Arab invasion struck, the Palestinians could be compensated with the property of Jews driven into the sea.? Kenneth Bilby, an American correspondent covering Palestine during the war. (1940- ?New Star in the Near East?, New York, 1950, pp. 30-31)
?The refugees were confident that their absence would not last long, and they would return in a week or two. Their leaders had promised them that the Arab armies would crush the ?Zionist gangs? very quickly and there was no need for panic or fear of a long exile.? Monsignor George Hakim, then the Greek Catholic Bishop of Galilee (a leading Christian personality in Palestine) to a Beirut newspaper, Sana al Janub, August 16, 1948.
?I do not want to impugn anybody but only to help the refugees. The fact that there are these refugees is the direct consequence of the Arab States in opposing partition and the Jewish State. The Arab States agreed upon this policy unanimously, and they must share in the solution of the problem.? Emil Ghoury, Secretary of the Arab Higher Committee, the official leader of the Palestinian Arabs, in a Beirut newspaper, also reported in the Daily Telegraph on September 6, 1948.
?The Arab civilians panicked and fled ignominiously. Villages were frequently abandoned before they were threatened by the progress of war.? General Glubb Pasha (the British officer who helped build the Transjordanian Army) wrote this in the London Daily Mail (August 12, 1948).
?The Arab Exodus ?was not caused by the actual battle, but by the exaggerated description spread by the Arab leaders to incite them to fight the Jews. ?For the flight and fall of the other villages it is our leaders who are responsible because of their dissemination of rumors exaggerating Jewish crimes and describing them as atrocities in order to inflame the Arabs ... By spreading rumors of Jewish atrocities, killings of women and children etc., they instilled fear and terror in the hearts of the Arabs in Palestine, until they fled leaving their homes and properties to the enemy.? ? The Jordanian daily newspaper Al Urdun, April 9, 1953.
?The wholesale exodus was due partly to the belief of the Arabs, encouraged by the boasting of an unrealistic press and the irresponsible utterances of some of the Arab leaders that it could be only a matter of some weeks before the Jews were defeated by the armies of the Arab states, and the Palestinian Arabs enabled to re-enter and re-take possession of the country.? ? Edward Atiyah (Secretary of the Arab League, London, The Arabs, 1955, p. 183)
?The 15th May, 1948, arrived ... On that day the mufti of Jerusalem appealed to the Arabs of Palestine to leave the country, because the Arab armies were about to enter and fight in their stead.?-- The Cairo daily Akhbar el Yom, October 12, 1963.
In listing the reasons for the Arab failure in 1948, Khaled al-Azm (Syrian Prime Minister) notes that ??the fifth factor was the call by the Arab governments to the inhabitants of Palestine to evacuate it (Palestine) and leave for the bordering Arab countries. Since 1948, it is we who have demanded the return of the refugees, while it is we who made them leave. We brought disaster upon a million Arab refugees by inviting them and bringing pressure on them to leave.
We have accustomed them to begging...we have participated in lowering their morale and social level...Then we exploited them in executing crimes of murder, arson and throwing stones upon men, women and children...all this in the service of political purposes...??Khaled el-Azm, Syrian prime minister after the 1948 War, in his 1972 memoirs, published in 1973.
Perhaps the most condemning article was that of Mahmoud Abbas himself, in 1976:
?The Arab armies entered Palestine to protect the Palestinians from the Zionist tyranny, but instead they abandoned them, forced them to emigrate and to leave their homeland, imposed upon them a political and ideological blockade and threw them into prisons similar to the ghettos in which the Jews used to live in Eastern Europe.
?The Arab states succeeded in scattering the Palestinian people and in destroying their unity. They did not recognize them as a unified people until the states of the world did so, and this is regrettable.? ? The Current President of the Palestinian authority- Abu Mazen (Mahmoud Abbas), from the official journal of the PLO, Falastin el-Thawra (?What We Have Learned and What We Should Do?), Beirut, March 1976, reprinted in the Wall Street Journal, June 5,2003.
Were any Arabs expelled by Israelis? Yes, there were some. However, they were mostly due to local tactical reasons rather than any grand plan for ethnic cleansing, like the expulsion of Arab fighters from Lod who surrendered, then picked up their arms and fought again when the Israeli force moved on to Ramla, a couple of kilometers down the road. After they surrendered a second time, they were escorted to Latrun under a flag of truce and turned over to the Jordan Legion.
Absolut lögn! Jag har uttalat mig ungefär fem gånger MOT bosättningarna.
Sedan hörde jag i någon diskussion på youtube (minns inte vem) någon uttrycka att man utan dessa bosättningar inte skulle kunna säkerställa säkerhet för Israel. Jag tyckte det var intressant och värd att fundera på, men man måste nog veta en hel del mer om hur säkerhetsläget är där mellan västbanken och Israel. Det kan inte jag bedöma förstås. Och därför har jag inte heller "ändrat åsikt", utan jag har bara sagt att det KAN vara en anledning förstås.
Det är fem "namn" som du räknar upp hela tiden: FN, Amnesty, Human Rights Watch och dessa två domstolar. Det är LÅNGT ifrån "alla". Ja, det är just dessa fem som är antisemitiska.